Nepal debates:(हस्तक्षेप.कॉम) 'नेपाल दुबारा हिन्दू राष्ट्र बनने जा रहा है।’

Tribhuvan Ju

Jwajalapa!

You put your finger precisely on the spot. Religions like Maoism brain washes you to think:

a. Your ideology is divinely ordained to be true. All other opinions are evil.

b. You know what people want. You do not have to ask them.

c. People are too weak and ignorant to know what is good for them.

d. You, the divinely ordained Maximum leader, know what is best.

e. Issues like referendum or asking people about their opinion is a bourgeois \ evil \ Hindu \ capitalists \ revisionists \ gang of four \ reactionary \ foreign conspiracy \ falana \ dhiskana ideologies. It must not prevail.

f. A strong hand must guide the people into the divinely ordained direction. A little terrorism \ violence \ chanda atanka need not be seen as negative. Matter of fact, they are the revolutionary \ krantikari \ progressive \forward looking \ long march \ Juche. It is the positive to be applauded.

g. Individuals have no opinion. They are grouped into classes \ herds by the prophet Marx. There are only Herd opinions, already expressed by communist prophets.

However, whether you realize or not, your idea is and must be laughed out of town.

1. You wrote, " .. Referendum is suicidal .. one segment of the society is poor, weak, ignorant and illiterate, while the other side profess vast and excessive knowledge .. "

Without referendum, how do you know the public opinion? You make nonsensical assumption that there is referendum between weak and strong. The referendum is about the bringing forth the public opinion. Opinions are not defined by Marxist herds. A person's wealth or lack of it, does not define his opinion. The person has divine right to express whatever way he\she wants.

2. I wrote, " ..  Religion is not Dharma. Communism is a religion and Hinduism is a collection of Dharmas." That is correct. If you cannot comprehend, you are welcome to ask.

Yes, Christianity, Islam and Communism all practice violence. Yes, Dharmas do not. Christianity wiped out all the pre-Christian Pagans. Then Christians started to kill each other, by millions. Yes, Islam right from the time of Muhammad practiced genocide and ethnic cleansing. It is the story of 14 centuries of terror. Today ISIS is merely trying to copy what Muhammad did. Yes, Communists in Russia and China killed millions.

On the other hand, do you see followers of Shiva \ Vishnu \ Buddha \ Mahabir attacking others in the name of their Dharmic duty? Do you see Brahman army attacking Hare Krishnas? Or Kan fatta Jogis attacking Jains? We do not.

You wrote," .. Hinduism practice spiritual and mental violence." What do you mean by that? Please give examples. Using words without any understanding makes has been your hallmark.

Nepal always is the land of Hindus. The words may change as per the circumstances. As I wrote before, Hindus means people who go to all the temples and practice all the Dharmic teachings as best as one can. We practiced Shiva Dharma and Vaishnav Dharma before. Then we also added Buddha Dharma, then Tantra Dharma. We are happy to welcome and add more Dharmas. Same in China. China had Confucian Dharma and Tao Dharma. Later Buddha Dharma is also added without destroying others. Chinese go to all the 3 temples.

3. As I worte, "Jati is social system, not Dharmic. Jati is also not Varna. Varna comes from Gurukul discipline. Jati comes from social grouping as per cultural affinity and strength in number. Dalit does not come from Dharma, but from stigma attached to their professions. Its solution is not attacking Dharma, but by education, job \ business diversification and inclusive politics.

4. Let us also be clear that religions are not Dharma. Religions require conversions. That is a convert has to fore go all the ancestral traditions as evil. For example in China, converts have to forego all the ancestral traditions as evil. Once Communism got power in China, it destroyed systematically Buddhist \ Taoists \ Confucian monasteries.

5. You wrote, "Hindus attacked Nepal and made colony." You are master of 'Jannu nee sunnu.' Are not you? To begin with we are Hindus. Exactly when Hindus (I guess from India) attacked Nepal? Which King? I know you practice free spirit and free thoughts, not bound by facts.

I agree with you that we need to learn and practice the teachings of Gautam Buddha. I do in my small ways. Unfortunately, you have no clue. Prove me wrong. Please write one intelligible paragraph on Buddha Dharma.

Thanks, Tilak

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Tribhuvan Tuladhar<tribhuvantuladhar@gmail.com> wrote:

Tilak ju,

Your email is the testimony to the very fact that you seem to repeat the same old story. You seem to be doing the same thing over and over again but expecting a different result. You have fallen into a dogma that will not be erased from you brain until your last days.

Referendum in Nepal is suicidal, and should not practiced in place where one segment of the society is poor, weak, ignorant and illiterate, while the other side profess vast and excessive knowledge of this world and human beings and have said to have written the most imaginative fiction there is. Such referendum will be a travesty of human dignity.

The reason I wrote that you live in the parallel world is in the very fact that your definition of Dharma and that of the world are totally different and even diametrically opposite. You call Communism a religion while Hinduism is not and while Christianity and Muslim practice physical and bodily violence while Hinduism do not As a matter of fact, in the same spirit what Hinduism does is that it practices spiritual and mental violence, degrades humanity to four castes, and adds one more, as untouchable, outcasts, trash heep of humanity. It is the most de-humanizing concept every created in any human relationship and existence. When all other religions see that all man, woman, and child are created equal, Hinduism is different. 

Nepal was never a nationhood of Hindus. Ancient Nepal during the Kirati reign and before during the Gopalas, Nepal was not a Hindu nation. It was made into one when all the Hindus migrated and conquered various parts of Nepal and made it it's colony. Nepal remains a colony upto this day, brought about the proxy colonization effort supported by the British in eighteenth and the early nineteenth century. The indigenous people of Nepal are still not free or independent even after the so called Andolan II when one side of the ruling elite kicked the other segment of the ruling elite right on the face in the name of "democracy" fooling the people and looting the country.

Tilak ji, you need to look more deep into the philosophy and teaching of Buddhism and realize your potential their. You can become more a follower of  Ascetic practices described in the Sanatana practices that preceded Brahmanism even before Riga Veda was ever contemplated. Many Hindus are presently getting on the Lumbini band-wagon and shouting out at the top of their lungs that "Nepal is birthplace of Lord Buddha" as billions of dollars are pouring into the Buddha birthplace and the Hindus want the piece of the pie. 

They do not want to talk about the teaching of Buddha, the Pancha-sheel, The Eight Foldpath, or the Middle Way of Buddhism that will bring real salvation of humanity spreading the idea of Peace, Non-violence and Compassion around the world. BTW even the UN has accepted Buddha teaching as their guiding Light and declares Buddha Jayanti as an official holiday of the UN. 

I think I need to stop here and listen to what you have to say. Just so that the readers at this forum does not get bored. Please do not repeat the same song again unless the record is broken. Ha! Ha! 

subhaye

Tribhuvan Tuladhar

 

  

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 3:02 PM, Tilak Shrestha <tilakbs@gmail.com>wrote:

Tribhuvan Ju

Jwajalapa!
We have already discussed the issue many times over, and yet you like to practice innocence of facts. 
Here they are:

1. It is up to people to decide. Without referendum the declaration of secularism does not have mandate and is Treason. 

2. Religion is not Dharma. Secularism is relevant to religions only, not to Dharma.

3. All the personalities you mentioned were referring to religions they knew, i.e. mainly Christianity, not Dharma. 

3. Communism is also a religion and like any other religion claims 'only they are right, all others evil', and practice violence.

4. Dharma is about truth and spiritual discipline. It is ignorance to define Dharma by a few superstitions or bad social practices. Jati issue is not Dharma but social issue. It has its own relevancy, If a Bahun think he is agreat guy and does not want marry a Tuladhar, why is that problem to you? You may also climb a tree and declare Tuladhars are the greatest. Christians, Muslims and Communists practice violence; Bahuns do not. If a Bahun can marry only Bahuns and Tualdhars can marry any body, then who is better off?

5. Matter of fact, Hindu rastra defines our nationhood. Our nation is built on our common heritage and values.

6. Your claim that 'Hinduism is most discriminatory' shows your ignorance about Dharma. Here is two pages note for your enlightenment.

Thanks, Tilak

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Tribhuvan Tuladhar<tribhuvantuladhar@gmail.com> wrote:

Et al,

Here are some thoughts ABOUT RELIGION, and why it should be kept out of political discourse. Religion is personal preferences and as free humankind one must be left to follow their own belief and destiny. Those who profess to make Nepal a Hindu Rastra is playing with fire that will not extinguish for time immemorial. 
Compare all religions of the world, Hinduism is the most discriminating  per today's understanding of Human Rights. I can predict that in the shortest amount of time ( a century or so- a short time for religious changes) Hinduism will have to change and  morph into a different religion as Brahmanism  did from vedic times  reforming  to Hinduism, as we know it today, in order to survive to the present days. Still more needs to change. When all the required changes to Hinduism is set and done it will be a totally a different religion. The very essence of Hinduism will not be there. Buddha did that some 2600 years ago.

 

Here are some Quotes from some Great people in History:

What is the religion of  God? 
Unknown

 

"Where knowledge ends, religion begins."

Benjamin Disraeli

Religion is the opiate of the people.

Karl Marx

"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."

Napoleon Bonaparte

 

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.

Blaise Pascal

 

A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

Albert Einstein

 

Good people can do good and bad people can do evil. But for good people to do evil -- that takes religion.

Steven Weinberg

 

KEEP NEPAL SECULAR – if you respect each other's religions and beliefs. 

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 3:58 AM, Bihari Krishna Shrestha<biharishrestha@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear all,

There was an ongoing voice among the Scots for Scotland to be
independent. When the people and government of UK thought that enough
was enough, they went for a referendum, the separatists were defeated,
the latter  acknowledged the result, and now, all Is quiet on that
independence front. That is the democratic process acknowledged
worldwide. In Nepal, nobody wanted secularism, even as people went
about their own religious traditions in mutual harmony. An important
example would be the marital tradition among three ethnic groups, all
professing to be Hindu. First, the Hindu Newars. Like the Brahmins and
Chhetris, it is considered an incest to marry one's mother's brother's
daughter, or father's sister's daughter, which are generally known as
matri-lateral/ patri-lateral cross-cousin marriages. The same rule
also applies to Buddhist Newars as well. However, among the Magars,
one can marry mother's brother's daughter, or matrilaterail
cross-cousin marriage, but not father's sister's daughter which is a
taboo. Similarly, among the Gurungs, another Hindu group, they
practice cross cousin marriages both ways. Same thing with food
habits. While the Syangza Magars are pork eaters and  buffalo meat is
a taboo,  those in Baglung and further west are buffalo and beef
eaters, and pork is a taboo. But despite these diversities there is no
mutual intolerance. It is for this reason that the longstanding
religious tradition--which happened to go by the overarching rubric of
Hinduism or Hindu Dharma--must not be disturbed.  But unfortunately,
secularism--with its pronounced invitation to Christian
conversion--was introduced stealthily during the political turmoil of
2006--with a few politicians allegedly profiting handsomely from
it--and it was undemocratic. Given the campaigns of conversions
becoming increasingly aggressive lately, at least a few of my Shakya
friends too now opine that the only bulwark against this approaching
menace would be to declare Nepal a Hindu Rastra once again. To me that
makes sense.

Bihari Krishna Shrestha

On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Tribhuvan Tuladhar
<tribhuvantuladhar@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lohani ji,
> Okay, let's see in the civilized world of Nepal, who has abused whom, in the
> last 245 years.  Language of civility come from the civilized actions and
> not from the flowery language one may use.  Those who has been in power can
> afford to act civil and use "civilized" form of orders - suppression and
> oppression, and few civilized words does not determine whether civility or
> justice has been imparted. Convection of all sort had taken place too,
> undermining the  livelihood and culture of the various people of Nepal with
> the imposition of  one Language, one culture and one religion principle from
> the ruling class.
>
> A Person is what one thinks and does. The actions and words cannot be
> separated from his motivation, intent or passion. I always call upon the
> character of person more than the subject matter of the issues one speaks
> of. Issues and events are the resultant of these emotions and values that
> one have acquired from the social and natural environments and information
> base one surrounds himself with. Such sterile but "civilized" good sounding
> words have no meaning when it does not involves the sweat and tears of good
> people, and honest and well intentioned actions of the real civilized caring
> person.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tribhuvan
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 7:43 PM, S.N. Karki <snkarki@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> http://nepalpolity.com/?p=5015#sthash.6811WPLx.dpbs
>>
>> On 12/5/14, Tribhuvan Tuladhar <tribhuvantuladhar@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Et al,
>> > Just want to mention that Tilak ji is a true devoted Hindu, more than an
>> > orthodox Brahmin from the Vedic period. He lives in one of the most
>> > developed democracies  and should know more as he is exposed to the best
>> > of
>> > the best. Like a broken record, he repeats himself, same old, same old,
>> > over and over again, till the cows come home, thinking a non-fact will
>> > turn
>> > to true fact by his chant and shear repetition like a Vedic hymn.
>> >
>> > Each and all his assertion can easily be refuted and rebutted, like
>> > counting 1, 2, 3. but it is not worth it, even to try with a ten foot
>> > pole.
>> >
>> > As a "fantastical, fanatical thinker" of our times, he has concocted his
>> > own portion of poison that keeps him going in a self-made parallel world
>> > that has no connection to the truth and realities of the world we live
>> > in.
>> > He has found this great forum the Himalayan voice to spew his belief
>> > thinking all in it will be convinced and converted by his pious sermons,
>> > but on the contrary, many of us feel uncomfortable and annoyed as to why
>> > such a good forum be turned into a vile one with few bad apples in
>> > rather a
>> > basket full of many good fruits.
>> >
>> > In conclusion I would like to request the moderator to please take me
>> > out
>> > of this weird email list that has not enriched my thinking even a bit.
>> >
>> > I pass.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Tribhuvan
>> >
>> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Tilak Shrestha <tilakbs@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Dear all:
>> >>
>> >> Namaste!
>> >>
>> >> Nepal was and still is the only Hindu rastra. It is a matter the wishes
>> >> of
>> >> Nepalese people, regardless of India or Modi Jee. Let me remind:
>> >>
>> >> 1. The declaration of 'secularism' does not have people's mandate. The
>> >> issue was never discussed in public, nor came from. To impose such
>> >> important national decision without mandate is the 'Treason.' Only way
>> >> the
>> >> status from Hindu rastra may be changed is through public debate and
>> >> referendum. Otherwise, the declaration of secularism remains
>> >> unconstitutional and unacceptable.
>> >>
>> >> 2. The concept of secularism applies only on Religions like –
>> >> Christianity, Islam and Communism. It is irrelevant to Dharma like
>> >> ours.
>> >> Dharmas are not Religions. A Dharma is about truth 'Satya' and inner
>> >> spiritual discipline 'Yoga.' A religion is about social control through
>> >> brain washing. Religions are not spiritual systems. Thus, secularism
>> >> means
>> >> not letting any religion to interfere with politics. However, Hindu
>> >> rastra
>> >> simply means recognition of our heritage, roots and values; not
>> >> theocracy.
>> >>
>> >> 3. It is well known that the change in status from the only Hindu
>> >> rastra
>> >> is done with bribery and corruption to facilitate Christian conversion.
>> >>
>> >> Advair, Kapil, 2010. "Hindu nation sold on Rs. 20 million" Review
>> >> Nepal,
>> >> July 26, 2010     http://www.reviewnepal.com/detail_news.php?id=656
>> >>
>> >> Kaidi, Prem. 2006. "Joshua II ko Paisama Dharma Niripekshya" Janamanch,
>> >> June 11, 2006. PKaidi@yahoo.com
>> >>
>> >> Shah, Saubhagya. 2008. "Civil society in uncivil places: Soft state and
>> >> regime changes in Nepal" Policy studies 48. East-West Center,
>> >> Washington
>> >> DC.  www.eastwestcenter.org/washington
>> >>
>> >> Wagle, Achyut. 2011. "Christianity, Communism & Constitution"
>> >> *Republica
>> >> \ opinion, July 5, 2011. *Editor of the 'Arthik Abhiyan*' *
>> >>
>> >> http://www.myrepublica.com/portal/index.php?action=news_details&news_id=33108
>> >>
>> >> 4. Our shared heritage, roots and values are the very basis of our
>> >> nationhood. Merely having bunch of people together does not a make a
>> >> nation. Otherwise, a prison will be a great nationalist institution.
>> >>
>> >> 5. Let me also add that we have many Dharmas in Nepal, like Shiva
>> >> Dharma,
>> >> Buddha Dharma, Vaishnav Dharma, Tantra Dharma etc. All these Dharmas
>> >> are
>> >> collectively known as the 'Hinduism' or Sanatana Dharma. Shiva Dharma
>> >> is
>> >> also known as Tibetan bon Po and Kirati Mundhum. Shiva's teachings are
>> >> spread out far and wide including in Veda, Kirati Mundhum, Tibetan Bon
>> >> Po,
>> >> and South Indian Agama. The unity of the three principal sects of
>> >> Hinduism
>> >> in Nepal – Bauddha (Buddha), Shaiva (Nilkantha) and Vaishnav (Narayan)
>> >> is
>> >> beautifully given in the temple located in Kathmandu valley, which we
>> >> lovingly call – 'Budha Nilkantha Narayan.'
>> >>
>> >> Thanks, Tilak
>> >>
>> >> 2014-12-03 15:27 GMT-06:00 The Himalayan Voice
>> >> <himalayanvoice@gmail.com>:
>> >>
>> >> December 3, 2014
>> >>> 'नेपाल दुबारा हिन्दू राष्ट्र बनने जा रहा है।'
>> >>> <http://thehimalayanvoice.blogspot.com/2014/12/blog-post.html>